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There are 2 quotes; on page 102 “they are able to slide through the system without ever experiencing a real challenge” and page 111 where they were discussing the Braille translation effort “this was amazingly difficult. Yet she had done it.” It sometimes seems that students feel that because they are in a GT class setting, that the work should be easy and they should always succeed on the first try with an “A” as a result. Persistence is a life skill these students need just like “normal” people. If they are easily getting their “A” they may not really be learning anything in the first place. The Braille story shows what a real challenge is and how these students can show persistence and succeed. I think we need to hold GT students to a high standard that does challenge them and does require them to do creative work in class. They need to learn to think and solve problems. loliver
ReplyDeleteQuestion 1
ReplyDeleteThere were several passages in this chapter that were enlightening for me. My 3 favorites include:
Page 102: “Unfortunately, persistence can be “educated” right out of the gifted child. Because if everything is easy for you year after year, will you know how to persist when something more difficult comes along?”
Page 102: “Persistence is a psychological muscle.”
Page 111: “Consider the classroom a mental workout room—a brain gym. You wouldn’t ask little Arnold Schwarzenegger to start out with five pound ankle weights just because that’s what the rest of the class is using, would you? If he didn’t get more of a challenge than that, he would lose what he already had.”
I struggle daily with instructional decisions/ delivery style in my classes. It pains me to see all of the varying abilities working on the same level of assignment while simultaneously I am watching the clock worrying about staying on track with the roadmap. This chapter caused me or reminded me that the child’s classroom experience/learning is the more important of the two. Not just for the sake of learning the content, but for the sake of teaching the child how to learn and that there will always be something that they do not know and may need to learn. These students need to be psychologically strong enough to accept that they do not know everything, and to withstand and learn from the inevitable failures/mistakes. It seems that lack of persistence would be a contributing factor to the alarmingly high HS and college drop out rates. As a teacher, it is my responsibility provide challenging
lessons/projects/assignments (even in the face of resistance) and to not be afraid to be flexible. It seems that lack of persistence is one contributing factor to the alarmingly high HS and college drop out rates.
I agree with the comment "worring about staying with the roadmap". It seems like we are more concerned about being in the right place at the right time than with really giving the students challenging assignments that require time, thought and effort for the students to do. Even if we might try to do these types of projects in our classes, that roadmap and benchmark testing is still hanging over our heads. Fortunately most of the GT students can easily pass these tests anyway. loliver.
ReplyDeleteloliver - You said "It sometimes seems that students feel that because they are in a GT class setting, that the work should be easy..." I think it's more that they think because they are GT, learning should be easy. We've allowed them to learn that - that's on us! I agree with your statement "I think we need to hold GT students to a high standard that does challenge them."
ReplyDeletes. acevedo - You said, "This chapter caused me or reminded me that the child’s classroom experience/learning is the more important of the two." I think it's our job to make sure kids learn to work hard and put in effort. At some point, that will be required. If we haven't prepared them for that, then we're not helping them develop to their full potential. This is really hard to do when the GT kids' needs are so far beyond their age peers.
ReplyDeleteTwo comments I underlined in this chapter were...
ReplyDeletep. 102 "...when they first hit that first hard subject that requires serious study, they are ill-prepared, lacking the study skills and perseverance required when it comes to facing challenges."
This just reminds me of how important it is to not be giving GT children work that requires no serious study. I agree with oliver when he/she writes that if they are easily getting an A they are probably not learning anything. Additionally, I think teaching all children how to tackle difficult material is something we don't actually teach. I feel like teaching study skills in addition to the curriculum is essential, but you don't find that on the road map.
On p. 111, I like the comment ... " consider the classroom a mental workout room." It just goes along with holding GT kids to a high standard (mentioned by acevedo) that requires them to develop the life skill of persistence.
melissaa
Dear LOliver,
ReplyDeleteYour posting reminded me that we must give students challenging work and really ensure that they work hard at getting an A. We must remember this even if we have parents who get bothered by the teacher not giving their child an A. I have had parents of GT students who get bothered with me when I don't give their child an A for an assignment or product. I think that sometimes they also get used to their child getting A's automatically. I've had a parent tell me that I expect too much from their child, and it should not be that hard to get an A. I once had a middle school teacher tell me that elementary teachers give way too many A's way too easily. :-)
The quote that I really consider when teaching is on pg. 103: "Persistence has been observed as a trait quite common among those who achieve, discover, overcome and create." I use these words often, and remind my students how crucial it is for students to see how not giving up and being persistent can lead to good things, and lead to further exploration and learning. I really work hard to instill a strong work ethic in all my students at SPIRAL.
ReplyDeleteI like the idea of viewing persistence as psychological muscle (p.103), a trait that has to used and exercised on a regular basis. It is important to make sure that you don't send the message good students = good grades. I would venture to say my primary students ( kg and first) are pretty much oblivious to grades and I am very happy about this. Most of them "do their work" because at this age they still love school and think learning is fun. We have the benefit of teaching through lots of open ended centers in the content areas. I know the kids are challenged to persist in this environment. Its the best I know of differentiating instruction and meeting the needs of the gifted kids along with all of my other students.
ReplyDeletep. 104... "..children are going to deal with both success and failure, and we need to find ways to prepare our gifted youth for dealing with both. There will be times they have to face failure"
ReplyDeleteThis is so true, these children come to us and everything is SO easy to them. When they come to a concept that they have to 'work' and and requireds effort- it completely throws them off! I had a student this year who was really struggling with the introduction of fractions and the fact that he was not the first to 'get' the concept really freaked him out. He started crying and basically having a fit. It took a while to calm him down and teach him that he may have to put forth some extra effort. It is my job to deliver the instruction to meet the needs of the kids.... but it is his job to try, and not just shut down. Sure enough, he quickly caught on!
p. 103 "they develop a false assumption that school (and everything else in life) will always be easy"
Where do they get this sense? Is from their school experiences?? Teachers? Parents? We as educators are doing them a disservice by letting them 'breeze' through. We need to be doing everything we can to challenge them and teach them that they need to 'flex' their psychological muscle (persistence).
S. Acevedo talked about her struggle with with instructional decisions/ delivery styles. This is such a struggle for all of us teachers. The child's experience is hands down the most important. These are life lessons and tools that they will continue to use daily- so it essential that they acquire them.
ReplyDeleteOn p. 109, the comment that caught my attention was "Nobody told them that being a good student meant that they worked hard and overcame obstacles or challenges to get good grades." On that same page, "persistence is psychological muscle." On the 8th grade level, I've not seen a lot that would represent these two quotes. My kids EXPECT a good grade and when they don't receive one, they shrug it off. Their persistence muscle is very weak!
ReplyDeleteAtxteacher and loliver both nailed my thoughts on grades and persistence. We as teachers need to rise to the challenge and flex our persistence muscle with assignments that will help strengthen theirs.
ReplyDeleteI found the same quote helpful that others mentioned - Page 103: "Persistence is a psychological muscle" and "they develop a false assumption that school (and everything else in life) will always be easy". These students are used to their education coming so easily that they aren't prepared when things get tough. As teachers, we need to make these students work for and earn their good grades. I would hope that they feel a greater sense of accomplishment rather than feeling put out that the work wasn't easy.
ReplyDeleteSo many of the comments and quotes pointed out above my observations and concerns. At sixth grade, it is easily observed in many of my talented students that they have not needed to persist on tasks and projects or work on higher levels of quality work very often. Their brains have not benefited from the "Brain Gym" pg. 111. During a science writing activity I watched a young lady work away for about 30 minutes then show frustration by pulling her hair and making sounds followed by erasing everything she had written. Her final product was 4 sentences long and later she told me it was just to hard to write it out.
ReplyDeleteSince then I've tried to restructure my expectations and practices by creating short scaffolded opportunities to experiencing higher quality expectations to earn an "A" and or work on tasks/projects that push them further than in the past. I agree with atxteacher on "I think it's our job to make sure kids learn to work hard and put in effort." It would be nice to have some curriculum planning times with others trying to accomplish the same thing for theri students.
My mind is whirling! Melwelsh asks "where do they get this sense?" in reference to GT students expecting things to be easy. It did not occur to me to ACTUALLY ask this or to ACTUALLY examine the factors in their world beyond the classroom that could have this effect on their outlook. This question is HUGE!
ReplyDeleteOn page 102, it said that,"Unfortunately, persistence can be "educated" right out of a gifted child. Because if everything is easy for you year after year, will you know how to persist when something more difficult comes along?" I've seen this happen a lot! Students are just so used to everything coming easy for them, they get frustrated when they have to actually work hard on something. I especially related (further down the page) shen it said that so many students slide through the system without ever experiencing a real challenge...and that nobody ever told them that they might have to work hard on something. I've tried hard to give students challenging work that is both meaningful and with a high degree of satisfaction for doing a good job.
ReplyDeletePage 102 "persistence can be educated right out of a gifted child" is a quote that really touched me. This statement is so true. Even when I was in school I was not given the study skills needed in order to truly suceed if I faced new challenges. Therefore when I entered college I had never needed to take notes or really read alot of the information because I already knew it; college however proved that easiness wrong. I really struggled my first year truly learning how to be persistent for the first time.
ReplyDeleteI also liked page 105 "persistance breeds success" This statment should be our mantra. How many things would have truly been undiscovered if it didn't succeed the first go round. These gifted students are our future thinkers and if they stop right when they get started many things will go unfinished/undeveloped.
A quote that had meaning for me was on page 103, "Persistance is a psychological muscle." I do beleive that things should be challenging for G/T students. I beleive that they loved being challenged. I have to agree with weberp about my Kinder students being oblivious to grades. They do love to "do their work" and love learning. I am thankful I can meet each child's needs through open-ended centers and make learning a challenge for all students.
ReplyDeleteI laughed outloud over the telling of the project of Ford and Lew on p. 104. Using Edison as an example of how many times he failed at inventing a workable light bulb for the masses is a great example to those who will be "learning on their own". First, these two were experiencing failure and frustration at their inablility to acheive their goal. That is a lesson in itself. However, to come together and regroup, their willingness to risk failing "one more time", was a life skill they would take with them throughout their lives. It was a perfect example of a teacher being flexible and giving the right support that allowed her students to learn what persistence and hard work can accomplish. I liked the quote Melwelsh gave. You can see what these two did when they had to "face failure"...
ReplyDeleteThere were several quotes throughout this chapter that I said, “here, here” because I was in totally agreement. One of my favorite was the first sentence on page 103, “Persistence is a psychological muscle”. I liked the sound of these words together for they brought a smile to my face because this is a type of work-out I can deal with. The last sentence on page 107 spoke volumes, “Sometimes persistence takes two”. This is where our educational guidance comes in because to me it is our responsibility to inform students that obstacles will be a part of learning as well as life and part of their job is to learn to get through (persist) the process. In other words, we are to “help [students} to develop their persistency muscles”, as stated on page 111. Great Chapter!
ReplyDeleteJCanon and PKassir...I enjoyed both of your statements because they hit the nail on the head …in regards to how persistence is a life long lesson and sometime even the parents of gifted are in the mist of learning that lesson also…yes, working for the grade earned is so valuable…if As were really that easy …gosh then everyone would want/have them …just because. The idea of “handing out too many A’s”, reminds me of a short story I read in college about the day things seemed different at school for a young boy in another far away country. It seemed odd to him that his teacher was not there, yet there was a man in a uniform and another woman who were telling the students that since they believed their country was so wonderful that they felt that every child should have a piece of the flag as a reminder. The story continued about how the child tried to asked questions …but was ultimately told how to think and as he watched his classmates happily cut up the flag he did not feel good about the situation. Since this child had been taught not to be persistent with his questioning and thought process he found that after recess, some juice and snack, he too decided to “fit-in” and join in cutting up their classroom flag. As the story continues….one day upon arrival to his classroom another different flag was hung in the old flag’s place. The youth explained that perhaps if he as well as the others in their community had been more persistent in questioning and sharing of their views…their old flag and the country they once knew and loved would still be as it once was.
ReplyDeleteP 111. “Help them to develop their persistency muscles. Consider the classroom a mental workout room – a brain gym.” As I develop aesthetic music experiences for my kindergarten and first grade music students, I will endeavor to find ways to develop that persistency through just the right amount of challenge, while attempting to maintain ‘fairness, ’give everyone a “turn” and keeping the group activity from falling apart. That’s a tall order which will, no doubt, give my brain a ‘workout.’ A group setting such as this endeavors to produce a collective product; therefore it is difficult to provide the necessary evolving repetitions for those who are ready for persistency when others in the group have a much shorter attention span and need to move on in order to maintain a stimulating learning environment.
ReplyDeleteI, too, agree with atxteacher that we, as teachers, have a responsibility to help our children learn to work hard. Potential becomes useful or realized only when it is brought to fruition. As Cwegsheid said, each of us must have strategies to help the students develop the skill of working through frustration.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the ancedote about the triops and the reassurance that sometimes "enough is enough." As we teach students to persist we also have to know how to coach them to realizing when we have reached the end of the road with an activity.
ReplyDeleteI also believe that it is our responsibility to help guide our children in learning to be hard workers- persistent.
ReplyDeleteIt is tru that "in some cases, they are able to slide through tthe system without ever facing a real challenge." p. 102 I know that when I was a first year teacher, I felt unable to reach the needs of my gifted kids. I only had a few tools in my toolbox to "challenge" them. I work to challenge kids as often as possible. sometimes it is as easy as asking a question of what they have already finished.. Ok you got it right...why...explain...tell why someone might struggle with this....
ReplyDeleteI agree with Suellen about the muscle, too.
Let’s hear it for the concept of classrooms being a mental gym …a workout area for the brain…both for the student and the teacher. As with all workouts that are considered health…persistence is always the key!
ReplyDeleteOK...I agree with the concept that there needs to be a way of making corrections to your posted comment...without having to "repost" with the corrections...such as my last post...which was intended to read as follows:
ReplyDeleteLet’s hear it for the concept of classrooms being a mental gym …a workout area for the brain …both for the student and the teacher! As with all workouts that are considered healthy…persistence is always the key! :-)