Session 4 = Chapter 12 - Final Thoughts & Recommended Resources (pgs. 157-208)
What were your "Ah-has" from the reading of pages 157-208? Why? Site page numbers you reference.
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It isn't either/or
8 years ago
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My AAH's were the dialogues. I especially liked the one on page 169 with Gabriella being given choices when she refuses to go to school. This is similar to Love and Logic which I try to use in my class. I like to give my students various choices so they feel they are "in control" and have more "ownership" over their choices. sometimes they look at me confused and say "I have a choice over how i do something OR what i can do OR what happens in a certain situation".
ReplyDeleteI agree with Helen's comment about the coach technique being similar to the Love and Logic. Giving power to the students and allowing them to become a problem solver.
DeleteI'm agreeing to Helen's comment on July 1st.
DeleteIn response to Helen Roberts, July 1st, after reading the 2 scenarios for Gabriella as well, I heard the differences. It was a power struggle in the first dialogue and the second was calming yet provided Gabriella with a choice as you mentioned. Both options included going to school but it was the approach that was taken that made all the difference for Gabriella. The parent still had control in the sense that Gabriella would be going to school but Gabriella had the choice of how she wanted to get there. Definitely Love and Logic.
DeleteI LOVE to see LOVE AND LOGIC in action..
DeleteThat's exactly what we saw with Gabriella on paI find that giving kids choices that you the adult come up with is a good way to get the results you want as well as solve the issue in a reasonable amount of time.
I would say that after reading Chapter 12, my aha moment was how raising or teaching Gt students can be a difficult job. I always thought that Gt students were very smart but didn't realize how these emotions are intensified and the characteristics of them. The strategies that must be taught in order to help them cope are so important. I was only looking at it from an academic stand point and not so much the emotional piece.These strategies will benefit them for the rest of their lives.
ReplyDeleteIn response to CTatro on July 2, yes, it can be difficult to support these emotions of GT students because we might not understand the intense pressure they put on themselves. It also is a satisfying feeling that they feel when they accomplish their ideas. To them, the world around is uncomfortable and not right until they get out their thinking clearly.
DeleteI agree with you, Ms. Tatro. I feel this book has opened my eyes and also given me great strategies I will put in my g/t toolbox in working with g/t students next year. Unintentionally, I think sometimes we overlook the emotions of our g/t friends. I know I will be using my Fonseca tips from this book for 2014-2015!
DeleteGood points made above. Teaching GT students can be difficult. I think this book has just given us a "taste" of what GT students go through on a daily basis. I love the toolbox comment written by Judy B-song. Most definitely, this book provides some tools to use in class and with parent communication.
DeleteIn response to Judy B-song, I agree that GT kids can be overlooked in classrooms, given that their brain power is assumed to be all they need to function therein.
DeleteAfter reading Chapter 12, my ah-ha is the dialogues in the scenarios, especially the one about Vincent and his teacher. Starting on page 173. I have been in a very similar scenarios before regarding work and grades and in the end, it ends up as me " slipping into author active mode instead of coaching mode." Starting this fall, I'm really going to work on using the coaching technique so that the conversation refocuses on the student and having them problem solve and manage their own behavior rather than focusing on the problem. Another ah-ha is how the teacher remains calm and does not raise the voice. That's very important to remain calm to show support for the student because ultimately, you want the student to be a problem solver.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Sarah Chu, July 2nd, I agree I need to see myself as more of a coach when in the classroom. Be calm, redirect when needed, reteach, inspire, problem solve and move on. I will be using this coaching technique as well.
DeleteLike C Tatro, I also need to be more of a coach in the classroom (and at home) so that my students/children can learn how to problem solve on their own. My favorite dialogue from these pages was the one with Emma and the teacher. At first, the teacher had an authoritarian role. She just seemed like she wanted to declare the bullying would stop. After she redid the dialogue using coaching strategies, she made the student feel valued and safe. It seems like they were on a better path towards correcting the situation. Emma felt like she had powerful voice in the situation.
DeleteSarah ChuJuly 2, 2014 at 8:32 PM, i need to also be more of a coach. too often i try to tell the kids what to do to solve their problem. This coming year i will work on trying to be more of the coach and let them problem solve and come up with their own solutions. i know it will be hard for me but i think if i can do it, the students will feel more at ease and i won't lose my temper as quickly.
DeleteIn response to Sarah Chu's comment (July 2, 2014), I am going to really put forth an effort to be in coaching mode vs authoritarian mode this year. Authoritarian mode isn't necessarily going to solve the problem long term. I will get more "bang for my buck" if I coach. My students can take ownership of their problem & come up with solutions themselves.
DeleteThe dialogues in the chapter was my ah-ha. I really liked Vincent's dialogue on pg. 157-158. I realized how using coaching strategies will give you a better picture at what is really going on with a child & "lead the child to a discovery of the root cause of the behavior." On pg.174 we see the dialogue with Vincent and his teacher. I have had similar conversations with students and "slipped into authoritative mode," but I realize that if I take extra time and go into "coaching mode"the conversation can end on a positive note and with the student actually solving his own problem.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the dialogues in the chapter. It is so easy for teachers/parents to "feed" answers/solutions to children. However stepping back and getting yourself into "coaching mode" is such a more positive strategy than being authoritative and always telling kids how to solve their problems. Many times, I have found that being a coach offers children a way to talk themselves through situations and they come up with much better solutions than I could have offered in the end. I think this helps the conversations be positive and is a good esteem builder for children to see that they have the power to solve their own problems.
DeleteIn response to JChoy July 3rd, I agree with the dialogue example and how the student becomes a part of finding a solution to situations instead of the adult (teacher or parent) falling back into 'authoritative mode'.
DeleteThe dialogue coaching strategies were very helpful to me in chapter 12 & 13. It's almost like I played the game of "which one is me" when I read the different responses. So much of how we respond to children is on the fly, and it was good for me to better understand how different responses completely change the outcomes. Keeping myself in coaching mode is my goal. I want to provide my students with the natural consequences that come with their choices, but I now have a better understanding of how differently my gifted students cope with behavior choices (p. 167, internal behaviors and p. 150, managing perfectionism)
ReplyDeleteThe dialogue using coaching strategies on pages 159-161 can make a huge difference in changing behavior of any child and follows along the Love and Logic premises in not reacting emotionally and in helping the child own the problem. I do like the example of the coaching strategy on pp 164-165 but I am not sure that parents or teachers always understand the underlying problems behind some behaviors; keeping in the coaching mode can help find the root of problems but may require patience and a conscious effort to respond as coach. Maybe we can get our students "coach me " shirts instead of school spirit shirts. Like jchoy said, it may take a little more time in the beginning but in the long run it can help our children become more self aware and solve their own problems.
ReplyDeleteThe Ah-Ha I would like to share involves the dialogue about a difficult child on page 169. The parent shows empathy by affirming the child's feeling by stating "I know this is difficult for you." This is perfect and is supported by the one liners from Love and Logic. You are showing empathy and diffusing the escalation. Here is a great list of one liners from Dr. Jim Fay.
ReplyDelete"I know."
"I bet it feels that way."
"What do you think you're going to do?"
"I don't know. What do you think?"
"Bummer. How sad."
"I bet that's true."
"What do you think I think about that?"
"I'm not sure how to react to that. I'll have to get back to you on it."
"I'll let you know what will work for me."
Fay, J. (1999).One Liners. Love and Logic Institute. http://www.loveandlogic.com/t-one-liners.aspx
In response to A Mitch: I am a Love & Logic fan myself, so I appreciate you mentioning the list of one liners from Dr. Fay. Dialogue in the classroom becomes easier with purposeful practice in leading kids to be independent thinkers. I think the ah-ha moments for me were the same as you on this one in making the connection between this work and the work of Love & Logic.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI'm so glad we are thinking along the same line. I agree with you that purposeful practices leads to independent thinkers. Great post!
DeleteThank you so much for providing the list of one liners. It's important to have choices in what to say so that the teacher doesn't sound like a broken record to the student.
DeleteYou're right. A broken record to a student sounds like lack of sincerity.
DeleteIn response to A Mitch: Dr. Fay's one liners are key for developing meaningful classroom conversation with multiple different types of kids. All kids are different, so why should our responses as teachers be the same?
DeleteIn response to A. Mitch, I am a fan of Love and Logic as well. The one liners are great for individuals. PIggybacking off of Charlotte, all kids are different, and we should treat them as individuals.
DeleteI really felt like the section on Resiliency and Risk taking was written for me and my daughter! She really had a tough time this year in her extra curricular sport...often being compared to her older sister in the class caused a lot of conflict and hurt feelings between the two of them. I tried several ways to help them solve the issue and smooth out the hurt feelings but often found that I had made no head way with the situation. It got so tough that towards the end my middle child wanted to quit because she felt that she wasn't good enough...this made me so sad because she loves to dance and I knew she didn't want to really quit, she was just beyond frustrated. Her class was intimidating because she was the youngest dancer amongst a group of older and more experienced girls. It was hard to step out of her comfort zone and put herself in a risk taking situation but she did it! I am thankful that she didn't give up and she finally at the end got her big reward when the teacher gave her a HUGE compliment in front of her peers. It made all the struggles worth while and I am thankful to say she is going to continue to dance again next year! I felt such a connection with the scenario about the 10 year old Olympic swimmer.
ReplyDeleteA Mitch.... I agree with you!
ReplyDeleteI LOVE LOVE LOVE all the one liners from Love and Logic and feel that they make a huge difference!
I agree that leading your classroom with Love and Logic makes a huge difference. Thank you!
DeleteI totally agree with you Mrs. Rincon - love those one liners! Love & Logic is huge - so glad we use it at our school.
DeleteMy ahas were reading the dialogues, especially the ones that reminded me of Love and Logic with choices (pg 157). I think it is a good to give children choices that you are okay with, this way they feel empowered and you are satisfied with either outcome.
ReplyDeleteYes, choices are key. I have found this approach to work time and time again. I like how Fonseca showed, through several scenarios, that giving the child choices works to a good end.
DeleteMy a-ha moment in Chapter 12 involved the dialogue/scenario/ coaching tips with Alana beginning on page 193. Throughout the section on this student, Fonseca repeats over and over again that teachers need support dealing with dual diagnosis students. Alana is on the autism spectrum and also identified g/t. Fonseca mentions that although the teacher might have information regarding autism and giftedness, additional training and information will be needed for successful outcomes with Alana. In the coaching section with this student, several strategies are offered giving the student choices for completing work. As others have mentioned throughout the book study, the strategies given reminded me of Love and Logic. When teachers ask others for support, we are often able to remind them of techniques and strategies (like Love and Logic) that work but may not come to mind in the heat of the moment.
ReplyDeleteMy Ah ha's occurred in Ch 13 - wow! this was an eye opening experience. I had a student 4 years ago in my classroom that fit the scenarios perfectly. I had to learn as we went along to deal with the emotional outbursts. Tip sheet 21 (pg. 176) is very helpful and informative.
ReplyDeleteNow getting to the hard "stuff" - Tip Sheet 22 - this is so awesome - I have a 17and 13 year old. This is an awesome tool to guide me in my talks with my 2. As a parent I don't think you ever know when or where to begin these talks. this cklist/tipsheet is a GREAT start. Thank you C. Fonseca.
Great read and so many helpful tips!
I like those tip sheets too for the same reasons you do! My personal children.
DeleteMy ah-ha moments occurred in chapter 12. I felt like I needed to apologize to my mom for being a GT student full of emotional outbursts. I realized that the dialogues presented could have helped alleviate so many of these issues. Now that I'm the parent of a GT child, I will make sure to use these dialogues that my mom didn't even know to do.
ReplyDeleteMe too! My poor mom! I too need to keep these dialogues in mind when dealing with my own child!
DeleteI loved reading the scenarios in chapter 12. Undoubtedly, I have at least one "Vincent" in my class each year. He is crippled by perfectionism and ends up with failing grades because he can't seem to turn in his work. The coaching dialogue is so valuable!
ReplyDeleteOf course, the parent exchange with Gabriella is very Love & Logic and so appropriate that she give her the two options of how to get into school. It is hard to remember the tips when you are in the heat of the moment, but reading the changed interaction between adult and child really helps.
John and his swimming issue can also happen in the classroom. If he's always had an easy time in one subject, but the newest material is slightly more difficult, he's likely to shut down.
I loved all the scenarios but my favorite was on page 168-170---the STOMACHE! I think it was my favorite one because I had a student who did this exact thing and I did what you aren't supposed to do. She went HOME!! Just like she wanted to. The examples with the new dialogue and coaching strategies is spot on! I can read a little Love and Logic within the strategies as well as just good advice. This not only applies to your GT students but to all students and it's a win win for everyone.
ReplyDeleteI think one of my favorite things about these strategies is that they really apply to ALL students (and people in general), not just those with the GT label.
DeleteIn the Final Thoughts on p. 188, Fonseca says "there is no such thing as perfect parenting, only being the best you can at the moment." As a parent of young children that spoke to me but I can also extend that to being a teacher. The idea that you have to take the emotion out of the scenario was a common thread throughout the book. I find this can be a challenge more as a parent but it can be a hurdle at times when teaching. Being self-aware in the moment can make all the difference for me in both aspects of my life.
ReplyDeleteValidation of the child's feelings on page 169 was an a-ha moment for me. Children are just as much people as adults- I feel particularly good about listening to someone who has validated my feelings, so I imagine that the complex mind of a GT child would be soothed by the same thing.
ReplyDeleteMy ah ha came on page 159- "the mad button" Our kids know us really well. And they know just which buttons to push. Vincent didn't really want to talk about it with his dad and in that first scenario he was sent to his room. Mission accomplished- he didn't have to talk about it. I don't usually have a mad button at school, but I think my own child knows just where it is! I need to work on changing the dialog to get away from the mad button!
ReplyDeleteMy ah ha moment comes from p.187, or at least it made me feel better. 'When you struggle, when you feel like you have failed...remember, there is no way you can fail at this if you are continuously trying to help your child move in the direction of mastery and acceptance of his emotional intensity." I can't tell you how many times I have felt like a failure because no matter what i have tried, the year has ended, and I have felt unsuccessful in helping the student deal with their intensities from being gifted emotionally and academically.
ReplyDeleteI like that too. We have to remember as teachers (and parents) that we are not ALWAYS going to get it "right" with every student. I have had the same feelings, though, with students who do not pass my class or with students who just never seem to "get it" no matter how hard I am trying to engage them.
DeleteMy ah ha moment was in Chapter 12, pg 204 (eBook) where it states that '...gifted students believe that making a mistake means they are not smart, capable or somehow wrong. They seldom see mistakes as a natural part of learning.' I wonder where that feeling of failure is instilled? Is it something that teachers and parents compound by constantly reminding the students they are g/t and they should get it. Teaching middle school and maybe one or two of my g/t students are/were perfectionist and wanted to get everything correct the majority of the others tend to accept a late grade if the assignment is completed correctly.
ReplyDeleteI think this is true. It's like they constantly feel the need to have to "prove" their "GT-ness." But this translates to all students because for whatever reason kids come into high school afraid to make a mistake. We as teachers need to let them know that mistakes are part of the process!
DeleteThe dialogue between Jessie and her mom (63%) reminds me so much of my own adolescent frustrations in talking with adults. I felt like no one ever listened to my side of things and, when they did, immediately found fault with my choices. Now as a parent and educator, I find myself talking like Jessie's mom. Is it my rush to manage a million things at once that makes me forget what it was like to be listened to but never heard? I will definitely be more conscious of my own word choices in effectively communicating a problem with students in the future and giving them a chance to freely express their side of things without prejudgment.
ReplyDeleteI had two a-has in this section of the book. First, on page 157,,,The child's manipulation has worked and the child has gotten what she is after. This will perpetuate a cycle..."
ReplyDeleteThis is true! What an opportunity to have a perspective at
helping the child develop quality choices to their behaviors. The examples help clarify positive ways to respond so help the child with this development.
My second one was on p.185...."takes on the role of emotional coach for her child-a shift from managing
behavior to understanding and shaping the way in which the child reacts with his world." This again continues the same perspective as I mentioned above.
I had one A-ha from two different pages in the book. First
ReplyDeletewas on p.157..."The child's manipulation has worked and the child has gotten what she is after. This will perpetuate a cycle." The second was on p.185..."takes on the role of emotional coach for her child-a shift from managing behavior to understanding and shaping the way in which the child reacts with his world."
This is the key to the process...the change in perspective to help the child in their emotional development, making choices and communicating their needs or ideas.
The dialogue between Vincent and his father (74%) was particularly useful. I have encountered this as a teacher AND a parent. As a parent, it is easiest to go straight to punishment in these matters without figuring out what the real problem might be with getting work turned in. I like approaching this as a "we have a problem, now let's try to fix it" type of solution rather than getting angry, emotional, and shutting the child down. This works in the classroom as well and students really respond to this approach.
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